Official or Unofficial

[Ganelon]

Since we have a good enough list of starting players, the question now becomes a matter of how we, as LOA should be organized.
Note: Im making some assumptions here, so correct me if I am wrong.

If we start as an official chapter, we will be required to name our Supergroup Lost Order of Akalabeth. All dual-tag rules will apply. As recruits join, they will be following the normal petition rules and vote sequence that we all went through. The advantage is that our members will be LOA members. This organization is stronger for recruiting and is pro grown.

If we are Unofficial, we can deviate the name... likely to something honoring the tags without the full name (I proposed Lords of Apotheosis). We can still recruit, and those recruits can still petition... but they will not be required to be full members of LOA to participate. The chapter will be a loese structure for those LOA that want to play with LOA members, but you are not required or even expected to to be in an LOA Supergroup. This organization is weaker for grown and recruiting, but offers no hassles.

So... vote your mind...

[Landro]

I am honestly torn here. I definitely prefer to be in a game with Lost Order of Akalabeth over my head, so my vote is in the air at this time.

My brain says, start out unofficial, see how it goes, then decide later if we have enough to be official. During this time, recruit, our way, have fun, and see if we grow. If we get a few people from CO to apply and make it in LOA, then we could decide then. My loyalty says go official and have LOA over our head :)

More thinking required.

[Balt]

In all honesty, I don't think this game will have the number of LOA members still playing past the first 3 or 4 months to warrant serious consideration as an official chapter.

[Ganelon]

In all honesty, I don't think this game will have the number of LOA members still playing past the first 3 or 4 months to warrant serious consideration as an official chapter.

If that is what motivates you vote, then cool... however, I intend to stay and see how the game evolves. Cryptic did right by us with CoH content expansion, well before they sold the product. Now that Cryptic is competing for Hero players against CoH, I expect there to be a continual push to expand the game.

I expect membership in a CO chapter, official or unofficial ...to grow substantially after go live. People wait and see. Recruits are recruited.

[Texicon]

Lets get more votes in guys. 4 different posters now and only 2 votes.

I voted unofficial to keep it a bit open. I will be in the LOA Supergroup, I wont have any characters outside it. I voted that way because I believe the game will be very niche (lower population) and chapter recruiting #'s could be helped being unofficial at the start.

Then once we are rolling with good people we lock it down and go official.

[Ganelon]

I voted unofficial to keep it a bit open. I will be in the LOA Supergroup, I wont have any characters outside it. I voted that way because I believe the game will be very niche (lower population) and chapter recruiting #'s could be helped being unofficial at the start.

Then once we are rolling with good people we lock it down and go official.

I voted Official... but I'm closer to the fence on it, for the same reasons you stated. I strongly support the game and wish to promote LOA in it... so that tips it toward the vote I made. But, as I said... Official or unofficial...LOA will rock this game.

[roland]

Still really undecided about this one.

The good side of going official is guild synergy, doing things together, recruitment, and all the honor that comes with being Lost Order of Akalabeth.

The good side of going unofficial is the fact that since we do not have a good number of core LOA folks interested, the said restrictions would not apply - so the few who are playing do not feel tied down.

Having said all of that, I think the best course of action right now is...

1) still have the guild name Lost Order of Akalabeth
2) start the guild as "unofficial"
3) leave the door open to become an offical chapter.

Who knows? Maybe 2 or 3 months into the game some core LOA players may pick it up. Or, maybe we can recruit people who are new. I have not seen us recruit from the in game forums as we have with other games before launch. I don't know what that means, but it was just an observation.

Also, since this is mainly my wife's account (I am just here for the ride :D) - she knows some Clan Moor folks who will be playing as well. I don't think there is a lot, but there is some.

[Ganelon]

1) still have the guild name Lost Order of Akalabeth
2) start the guild as "unofficial"
3) leave the door open to become an offical chapter.

Who knows? Maybe 2 or 3 months into the game some core LOA players may pick it up. Or, maybe we can recruit people who are new. I have not seen us recruit from the in game forums as we have with other games before launch. I don't know what that means, but it was just an observation.



Okay... then put your vote down as Unofficial. If we go unofficial, I am at peace with keeping the proper guild name, since to not do so would technically restrict going official later down the road.

[Morning]

I'm not playing so I won't vote. But I've been around long enough to see this discussion more than a few times. First, LOA as a general rule doesn't actively recruit. Second, if you start as unoffical and pick up a few new people along the way, what happens to them if the chapter becomes official? They apply formally or get booted? IMHO, unofficial is better. Less rules that need enforcing, less hassles, etc. Just my 2 cents.

[roland]

Unofficial with restrictions? Heh....

Keep in mind that I really don't understand the determining factors of what makes a chapter official or unofficial. The only frame of reference I have is the fact that offical chapters tend to start off with a high volume of LOA members - like LOTRO started with about 30, and WAR had just about as many.

[Ganelon]

Unofficial with restrictions? Heh....

Keep in mind that I really don't understand the determining factors of what makes a chapter official or unofficial. The only frame of reference I have is the fact that official chapters tend to start off with a high volume of LOA members - like LOTRO started with about 30, and WAR had just about as many.

The issue is one of structure and regulations.
The dual tag restriction... as well as membership being restricted to full guild tags. In an Official chapter, if a petitioner fails to become a full member, they are de-tagged in game and are not part of the guild proper. The chapter is Lost Order of Akalabeth. A recruit who has passed the vote from an Official Chapter is open to any other chapter, can vote on new members and is part of the family.

In an Unofficial chapter, t it is less restrictive. A player could be tagged in game without being part of the full guild. Their LOA experience would be restricted to that one game and the public boards. Of course, I would encourage any good player to petition for full membership. Likewise, if a full member of LOA isn't getting what they want from the Champions Online LOA presence... they are free to detag from the game and pursue other options. It is more organic. Note: all people wearing LOA tags are expected to uphold our policies of behavior.

Both forms of structure have their attraction.

[Texicon]

"Note: all people wearing LOA tags are expected to uphold our policies of behavior"

Son of a...no more F bombs from me in zone...

[roland]

The issue is one of structure and regulations.
The dual tag restriction... as well as membership being restricted to full guild tags. In an Official chapter, if a petitioner fails to become a full member, they are de-tagged in game and are not part of the guild proper. The chapter is Lost Order of Akalabeth. A recruit who has passed the vote from an Official Chapter is open to any other chapter, can vote on new members and is part of the family.

In an Unofficial chapter, t it is less restrictive. A player could be tagged in game without being part of the full guild. Their LOA experience would be restricted to that one game and the public boards. Of course, I would encourage any good player to petition for full membership. Likewise, if a full member of LOA isn't getting what they want from the Champions Online LOA presence... they are free to detag from the game and pursue other options. It is more organic. Note: all people wearing LOA tags are expected to uphold our policies of behavior.

Both forms of structure have their attraction.


Let me ask it another way.

What determines a game to be an official chapter BEFORE release? Is it simply just the decison of the members? Is it simply a matter of having say more than 10 people? What is the criteria before a game goes to launch?

[Ganelon]

Let me ask it another way.

What determines a game to be an official chapter BEFORE release? Is it simply just the decison of the members? Is it simply a matter of having say more than 10 people? What is the criteria before a game goes to launch?

I'm pretty sure it is the decision of the members. However, more members tend toward an assumption of Official simply because the rational goals of a large crowd are greater then a smaller tribe... and thus require more organization. If there were 30 people that were stoked to play, I think the question would be moot.

When an official chapter dwindles down, it should become unofficial to open up game play opportunities that would not be available due to the dual tag rule.

From what I see...it is all rather organic... but the trend is from Official to Unofficial...not the other way around.

Note: I directed Freejack and Brimstone to this thread to see if they have any thoughts or guidance in the matter. As I said... I'm making assumptions.

[Brimstone]

It really comes down to how much interest there is, how organized you all want to be, and if you are all prepared to be dedicated to creating a successful LOA presence in this game.

We often like to give the chapter a few weeks to 'settle' in before making it official. We do this because official chapters are given access for leadership forums that they may not otherwise have. We want to make sure this is for real.

In the meantime, do you have all the forums that you need?

[Jaegerbrau]

I'm not playing so I won't vote. But I've been around long enough to see this discussion more than a few times. First, LOA as a general rule doesn't actively recruit. Second, if you start as unoffical and pick up a few new people along the way, what happens to them if the chapter becomes official? They apply formally or get booted? IMHO, unofficial is better. Less rules that need enforcing, less hassles, etc. Just my 2 cents.

Morning speaks wisely. I vote unofficial for less hassles.

[ThaMan]

There are two issues with going Official after the game has been in play.

What about people in the game that are part of the guild, that are not full members? When the guild goes "Official" in the game, they would have to go full or be dropped from the guild in the game.

What about members of LOA that have joined other guilds in the game, for what ever reason? Will those members be granted ex post facto status?

Granted, this won't be too much of an issue if it starts Un-official and goes official after a couple weeks, but the longer it goes unofficial, the more unlikely it is to be a smooth transition.

I would suggest a "cooling off" period before granting access to the leadership forums, in case it has to be pushed to unofficial status within a month of startup. No reason you can't have a probationary period with a new "official" game.

Someone write this down. I actually agree, somewhat, with morning for once. :p

[Landro]

After much deliberation, I feel that it should be unofficial at that start. I voted official, mainly because I really prefer to have Lost Order of Akalabeth as our guild/super group name in-game, it's just a personal preference.

But, I would rather it be a little easier on the "rules" at the beginning. So we can recruit our way, play, hang out, and get to know a person somewhat then ask them to apply to LOA. But, at the same time this can be a way to do the more "public" recruitment. Put LOA out there, explain our values and see if there are any people interested. Get a group in-game, and see what type of people we get, if we find 3 good LOA type people out of 100, then it's worth it. But, lol, at the same time, I don't want some jackass running around with the LOA tag being a d*ck to everyone and acting like an elitest, giving us that look....

I say unofficial for now. Seeing what cryptic had done in the past, I think they will add-on to this game in a way people will start to turn to the superhero side of the world :)

So I change my vote. Long story short a little too late :)

[Landro]

It really comes down to how much interest there is, how organized you all want to be, and if you are all prepared to be dedicated to creating a successful LOA presence in this game.

We often like to give the chapter a few weeks to 'settle' in before making it official. We do this because official chapters are given access for leadership forums that they may not otherwise have. We want to make sure this is for real.

In the meantime, do you have all the forums that you need?

Maybe a crafting one, and a private meeting place one? Though I am not sure if crafting supplies are something that can be traded or sold. I didn't mess with it much.

[Freejack]

I'm mostly just going to repeat what Brim said. The "decision" is mostly based on our sense of the interest or mindshare a game has with the membership around release. We could have fifteen really dedicated members playing, but that's not really enough for an official chapter because you'd be limiting yourself to a relatively small group to play with.

What the chapter gets named shouldn't be a deciding factor. Even an official chapter could vary the name slightly to fit the game, so "Lost Order of Akalabeth" might not fit in a superhero setting, but "Champions of Akalabeth" might. I just think there's a little wiggle room and the name shouldn't be a component of the decision. We can work something out one way or the other.

We know from experience that the membership in a chapter will usually spike at launch as word of mouth gets out and people, eager to try something new, jump in to see how the game plays. After about the first month there's a fairly steady decline in membership as users have had their fill of the content (and their trial periods run out) and they start moving on or back to old standards. Therefore, there's no real case for starting out unofficial and later going official as the numbers almost certainly won't support that direction. A chapter is either going to start out official and later move to unofficial, or it will start unofficial and stay that way.

[Landro]

"Champions of Akalabeth"

Not sure why, but I really like this name :)

[Ganelon]

Thanks FJ and Brim. Let's just see what happens after a couple of weeks. No need to pin it down from the get go.

Champions of Akalabeth, huh? *raises eyebrows*

I like that...